Music Education Europe vs. USA -> Read the Branford post to get the start point

I have been away for a few days, came back to the workshop and watched the Branford Marsalis video and it still moves me. I read through all the posts and had the feeling that it is time to open up a new thread as too many topics are tumbling through oneanother within the original post...
Before covering the actual topic of my post, I'd like to say, that I am 90% behind Marsalis! Okay, he is being very provocative here, but hey I think he has a point.
Within the discussion about his words the subject of differneces between European and American students arose, with th better end for Europe.
Being a German music student that has gone through classical percussion and is on the finishing line of his jazz studies - I would like to contribute my point of view to the discussion.
You American guys have no idea how idealised all of you are in German Jazzdepartments of higher education.
-> just for your information, there are about 23 music universities and about half of
them offer a Jazz education. Only five places offer a jazz vibraphone course... <-
In most of those departments the general thinking is that in the USA especially the jazz students are much much much much better than the best students in Germany...
If someone plays a great concert he usually gets off stage saying: "I know it is all nothing compared to the US, but it was okay."
So it was actually a bit shocking for me when I heard most of the people here saying, that the level, especially in Germany SEEMS TO BE higher than in the US. Wow!
However, I met some people who told me the same.

A few years ago a top graduate student from She-E-Wu's, Bob Becker's and Leigh Stevens' class (New Jersey) came to my classical percussion school in Detmold as an assistant. She came with a large list of degrees and qualifications and we were all very exited about her. After three weeks of assisting and teaching in the class she gave up as she had the feeling she couldn't honestly act as a teacher as the general level in the class was just met by her own abilities... She is now at Eastman College as a Doctor of music and will start her University teaching career in the US soon.

This year Nancy Zeltsman was a guest teacher in Detmold. She was teaching marimba and did a tremendos job. However, she also said we shouldn't mystify the US and that in Europe no one should underestimate their abilities compared to the US. (she teaches at Berklee and New England...)

I won't drop names, but there are head teachers in the top positions in Europe who say that the US - system is based on praising and hyping and that most of it (speaking of classical percussion) can't survive being compared with top artists and performancesin Europe. - Well...

One big difference is - I am sure the fact David pointed out:
In Europe students are selceted BEFORE the education starts. Especially for Jzz-students this is very tough as the schools have only very limited facillities for the "least loved" department.
In my case, the department can only take 5 - 7 students A YEAR a the absolute most. Not for an instrument - NO FOR THE WHOLE JAZZ DEPARTMENT.
You can imagine how tough it is to get in. On Davids school it is even harder, sometimes all they take in one year is one saxophone player - period. However in the last year Davids vibraphone class grew to a certain extend...

So, as not everyone gets in, the determination you have to devote to your studies before the actual education has even started is a lot tougher than in the US I feel.

In France it is even tougher! There are only two schools in France that offer the highest qualification in music. Paris and Lyon. It is extremely tough to get in there. They have a round based entrance exam with task like: "Sight-sing this line written in viola clef while you improvise to it on a single tom-tom."
So, there are only about 6 - 8 students in the whole country starting a course a year.

In Holland it is more liberal but it is still tough to get into the big schools such as Amsterdam or Rotterdam. But in Holland the classes are hughe compared to France our Germany. I think there are about 30 Jazztrumpet guys in Amsterdam.

When I was 16 I had to decide where to spend a year abroad - the US or the UK. My sister came back from the USA and she told me that she was told 24/7 in highschool and at home that she was "amazing, great, wonderful, smoking..." She only spent 3 month in the soccer team but got about 4 trophies for it. (most improved blabla)
This is mind I think what Branford is trying to say about the delussion in the country...

I went to the UK where I wasn't told that at all but experienced the harshness of a boarding-school and no host family. The good thing was when I really did something great it could take the (very little) credit for it seriously.

Summary:
Yes, there is a big difference between most students in Europe and in the USA. I personaly think that it is because of the way you get into the system.

- In Europe the selction beofore University is tough and the schools do not depend on the number of applications so much.

- The idea of "only positive feedback" that is often asosiated with American teaching is not much in use by European (Eastern European) teachers.

- General high schools seperate before University (in Germany three different levels with differnt graduations)

- Especially in Germany students are a bit older when they enter University and a lot of Asians are in the classes who already studied for 4/5 years in their home country, therefore the level is even higher (often)

- Most of the students in Germany/Holland/Belgium feel that there is a 75% chance they won't be able to make anything out of their music. Fear is everywhere...

Okay okay okay I know I am generalysing toooooooo much, but I still think there is something to the whole thing.
However, although David and Tony may feel things are going a bit better in Europe at the moment I can ensure that we will follow the US-trend soon. We have the same problems Branford pointed out.
We too have far too many students with great grades that don't mean a thing... for instance. We too have loads of students who are angry at their teachers as soon as they question or critisize something.
And yes, also the vibesworkshop is extremely friendly : )

Take care everyone!
Holger